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Ben Kingsley Interview - "Triumph of Love"
by Rebecca Murray and Fred Topel


Ben Kingsley as the rational philosopher Hermocrates in Clare Peploe's "Triumph of Love," produced by Bernardo Bertolucci.
Copyright ©2002 Paramount Classics - All Rights Reserved.


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Producer Bernardo Bertolucci was intrigued by the idea of a romantic comedy that still had the power to make audiences laugh almost 300 years after it was written. " 'Triumph of Love' is a love story but it possesses the fantastic energy of a battle between the sexes. What is exciting for modern audiences is the chance to watch a woman whose passion drives her to both deceive and to transform, which is the power of love," says Bertolucci.

Director Clare Peploe's search for the actor to play the duped philosopher, Hermocrates, centered on the need for someone to have unlimited fun with the part. "I always wanted Sir Ben for the role," she notes. "I love the intense seriousness he brings to some of the silliest moments as he transforms from very severe philosopher to lascivious and sentimental lover. Early on, Sir Ben made the wonderful decision that Hermocrates is someone who is secretly depraved. The reason he avoids emotional life is because he's terrified of what might emerge. So, the minute he becomes wrapped up in Mira's [Sorvino] flirtations, he just erupts with carnal desire."

BEN KINGSLEY (Hermocrates)

This is a different genre for you.
15 years before I became a screen actor, I was in the theatre. A lot of my work was comedy, which I loved doing. It's harder.

Why is it harder to do comedy?
I think that you can fall into bad habits with comedy, easier. For example, if you are doing a run of a play on stage, you can become addicted to doing a certain series of lines and a certain series of words, and on Monday, get a huge laugh. So the temptation is, "Tuesday night, I'm going to get that laugh again." By Wednesday night, you are trying to get that laugh but you've actually forgotten the bits of truth that were in the substance of you getting that laugh in the first place. By Friday, it's gone, and you think, “What's the matter. Why aren't I getting that great laugh?” You are going for the laugh, that's why. It's a tightrope to stay true to the character, true to the irony, and allow the irony to happen - don't play the irony. But filming is good for you because the crew isn't allowed to laugh. You can't get addicted to getting the laugh because they say, “Quiet on the set, please.” You do this thing, which you think could be quite amusing, but the good thing is you don't play for the laugh.

I went to see “Triumph of Love” in Toronto in September, and I was surprised and gratified to see where the laughs came in the piece. More laughs came in the piece than I was aware of playing for, which is a good thing. That's a very good thing.

Why is the 'period' this film is set in so well suited for romantic comedy?
I think because the baroque, operatic nature of how things were expressed. In Clare's [director Clare Peploe] case, she set it in this extraordinary villa in Tuscany so the geometry and architecture of the gardens is formal. The architecture of the houses is lush, but formal. There's nothing abstract or random about it. The male silhouette is a male silhouette. The female silhouette is a female silhouette - however decorated. There's nothing ambiguous, androgynous, or vague about the settings. They are architecturally clear and set. I think that's a great backdrop for having a story isolate the points clearly. I think that's probably why.

How did shooting in Tuscany affect the film?
It really feed the film. [My character is] a man resisting falling in love in his own garden, which has been invaded. This beautiful garden which to himself is his version of order and paradise on this earth. That's Hermocrates' garden - his fountain, his topiary, his waterfalls, and his sculptures, which become part of the film, especially the sculptures of the male/female figures. To have that in my eye line, to have all that information coming into my eyes as Ben, whilst my character is being invaded by love, is a huge gift to me as an actor. I don't have to play that; it's just all there received in my eyes and by the camera. It's a great gift.

Do you think that audiences are more willing to accept this type of innocence, in terms of romantic comedy, when it is set in that period?
I think if we set it in a modern, urban environment, I think [Clare Peploe] would have had a tougher time with that suspension of disbelief of boy/girl/boy/girl. In our era, it's slightly more acceptable. I think that Fiona Shaw's character, who plays my sister, allows herself to believe that's a boy because she desperately wants to fall in love with a young man. It says as much about Fiona as it does about Mira's disguise - that that's what she needs in her life, and there it is. That's what I want it to be so that's what it is. In my case, I wanted that to be the woman who wanted to ran away with me so that's what I invented in my imagination. That's what it became. All of our private fantasies are fed and she does this dance around it - in and out of each private fantasy - and auditions for that part in our dreams. She gets the part because that's the part that we want her to have. I don't know how difficult that would be, that boy/girl thing would be, in a modern environment. Harder, but then that isn't quite the point. I think the point is that she becomes what she thinks the people desperately want her to be, or him, to be. In that sense, she is very clever. She judges exactly what they want her to be, and voila, that's what she becomes.

Is this a respite from doing “Anne Frank” and “Sexy Beast?”
No, it's not a respite. You can say, “I'm going to paint this painting of a vase of sunflowers” or then you can say, “I'm going to paint a painting which is a storm in the sky that's like somebody going mad.” This painting is called Paranoia and this painting is called Sunflowers. Once I start to mix my paints, the process of putting that paint on the canvas is just as exacting, just as precise, and just as exhausting and exhilarating, as the other canvasses are. So once I start painting, once I start acting and working, it's not a holiday.

It's not a respite, but it is, in a sense, a balance, but it's of equal weight. It's a balance; it does balance out. It's just as meticulous and just as exacting.

Is that what directors expect from you as an actor?
Yes, they expect a certain degree of detail and they expect, I hope, a certain degree of minimalism. It's interesting for Clare to invite me to, in a sense, by operatic. To run up and down like a peacock skipping and shouting somebody's name. Whereas in another film, in another character, I might be asked to make an emotional expression which is me being absolutely, absolutely still and making maybe one movement, and there it is. You have to be accurate with Clare, but accurate on a much bigger scale. Whereas with perhaps Steven Spielberg and “Schindler's List,” I had to be accurate in much, much narrower confines. Clare set the parameters very firmly, very clearly, and filmed me running up and down like a deranged peacock. I was confident doing it. That's the strength of her as a director. She doesn't need to persuade you, but she'll say, “I need this to show...I would love some desperation and absurdity to see how far he's gone in his fall for love.” He does fall in love; it is a fall in a sense. It's wonderful to comply with that.

I hope that directors see in me an opportunity for collaboration. I was able to give Clare ideas and she's had the grace to say that the final song of the film was my idea. I put that idea forward in her kitchen even before I started learning my lines for the film. I had an intuitive flash that in order to join her play within a play, her film within a play, or her play within a film, maybe the cast should take a bow, but before they take a bow, they should share some final aria together. That's what she presented us with during the filming. She said, “This is your idea, Ben. This is your song. All the cast are going to sing it with you.” I think it's that collaboration that the directors enjoy in me, which has left me with no desire whatsoever to direct. I get on so well with directors that I think, “Why should I divorce myself from this wonderful actor/director relationship, as an actor? Why should I shift that to a director/actor relationship as a director, when I'm so happy doing it as an actor?” It is collaborative with the supreme taste and the supreme final decisions, in this case, belonging to Clare Peploe. The film can only be as witty as Clare Peploe's sense of humor allows it to be.

What attracted you to this character?
I just loved playing a man who was unafraid of making an idiot of himself in the process of falling in love. I found that admirable. I think that very few of us are able to take the risk of saying, “Okay, I've fallen in love. I have got to surrender to this. I have got to be vulnerable to this. It is bigger than me.” In a sense, absurd though it is, Hermocrates does make a pact and say, “Okay, I've fallen in love. My past theories of isolationism, of a philosophical, reclusive life, all my banning of women - apart from my sister - and my keeping women away from my life and my boy's life, are all torn up and thrown away.” That takes an enormous amount of courage to face that amount of change. He does have a scientifically questing mind. It's that kind of a questing mind that allows him to discover electricity at the end of the film. They are prepared to tear up one theory and go for another. Fiona Shaw's character is the same. She won't have anything to do with love in her life, so of course, she falls hard when the time comes.

Can you relate to that aspect of your character?
It's not a question of relating to it; it's a question of admiring it in a genuinely humanistic sense. I don't think that making ourselves invulnerable to feeling any onslaught to our feelings will help us in life, ultimately. I think we only learn and grow by allowing ourselves to be really challenged by those feelings that do overwhelm us occasionally. He allows himself to be overwhelmed. His appearance at the end of the film, which is grotesque and funny and absurd, of a man with makeup and this whole dandy costume is a result of a man who is saying, “Okay, I've thrown all my theories away. I agree, I have fallen in love.” It makes me feel wonderful.


Interview with Mira Sorvino - >Page 2

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